The OnTrade Show Podcast - The Original Rosslyn Inn

In this episode of the OnTrade Show Podcast Justin speak to Richard & Amy Harris the team behind The Original Rosslyn Inn & Dollies Tea Room in the famous town of Rosslyn.

Richard & Amy discuss the history of the venue and the unique challenges that running a venue in a historic tow brings.

they also provide a great inside into what a venue like theirs means to the community on a number of levels not just as a place to eat or drink .

The team talk openly about what it means to them as a family to be part of that community and the responsibility that comes with that and why it a 24hr 7 day a week part of their lives .

Justin also discusses the venue being nominated again in this years Ontrade Awards in a number of categories and how the team felt on picking an award at last years showpiece event .

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is the real happen.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Hello and welcome to another On-Trade Show podcast. The show where we try to bring inspiration to the industry from senior people and inspirational people across the industry to hopefully move the industry forward. On today's show, we have the dynamic duel and partnership team of Richard and Amy from the original Rosalind Inn and Dolly's tea room in Chapel Cross guest house. How are we, guys? Have you got the right people?

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Like an introduction of the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I was thinking the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Really good to see you guys. How are you? Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. Welcome. Welcome. So the reason we were keen to get you on is we've obviously been working quite a bit and we'll communicate with you guys and you've been engaging with us quite a lot across the title. For those that aren't aware of both venues, I'll start with you, Richard. Give us a background on the historic original Roslyn Inn.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

So we are the original Rosalind Inn, uh, which dates back a couple hundred years, I think it's 200 years next year. Um family run. So my dad uh came with my granddad in 1973 with my mum, uh, so 53 years, over 53 years this year. Right. Been at the helm there, serving the community. We're a traditional country in. Uh, so we are the sort of regular raconteurs, the innkeepers, the purveyors of libations. You know, we're traditional hospitality specialists, so you know, we care greatly about what we do, and we're very proud about our area in the village we're from, uh, which has uh a bit of fame with the Roslyn Chapel and Da Vinci Code. So we have a local and global audience. Uh so we we do proper home cooked food uh on premises, and we still serve my dad's chicken lover party that he makes his recipe for 50 odd years that he learned at catering school. So it's uh it's really about tradition, uh history, and hospitality. And I think the evolution of how the weird industry is going, uh technology, we've moved forward with a lot of technology. So this year we've introduced QR codes because we sort of resisted, because we want that human connection. Yeah, yeah. Um that's important to us. Uh, but we're also aware that there's customers out there who want that experience of I want the QR code, I'm out in my brain.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

That's what they're now kind of programmed to do within hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

And we do, we do cocktails uh and uh and drinks, but our cocktails are T-A-L-E-S, so every cocktail comes with a story. Okay. So we have our version of uh uh porn star martini, it's called a shag pile. It's called a shag pile because Rosalind historically had a carpet factory down the glen and it was it was renowned for its carpets and its fabrics. So we tried to tie a lot of our our offering into local history uh and and tell everything has a story about it. So and we have QR codes around the inn that tell us about historical. So we are a hospitality business that does a bit of tourism because we're next to a tourism business that does a bit of hospitality.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Well, I was gonna say it it it's I mean, both venues applies to both venues, but obviously it's very much rooted in the community. It's a very much a community engagement, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah, and I think obviously Rosdon is is a small village and my dad was a towny. Uh he came back, he came out to the village, so he was always an incomer. But I was born and raised in the village, so I I'm sort of that feather my cap that my dad didn't have, which is pretty quite good. But uh I'm I'm I'm really passionate and I care greatly about our community and and the not just what happens within our four walls, but without that, we've done um we did a Grail Trails project with the um with Visit Scotland. We've done lots of different projects out with our walls to have a positive impact on the community, and I think that's you know, I think our bottom line is important and survival's important. Yeah, but I think we trade with our family name and make sure that locally that the reputation of the family name means something within hospitality, and that's what we try and do. And I think being third generation essentially, you don't want to be the guy that messes it up. No pressure, no pressure, yeah. Won't be yourself, Amy.

SPEAKER_03 4:15

From Dolly's perspective, there's obviously different types of business, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Totally different. And do you know when we first bought the hotel and we didn't know what we were gonna do with that space and we went down the tea room route, right? Um, it was very much, you know, because we have to be careful. Richard's dad had that venue, you know, for a long time. Um, you know, we're buying the place directly over the road, you know, are we gonna steal his customers? That's that's the reality, do you know?

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Family competition and terminal squads.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Back in the day, that we had that conversation many of a times. Um, and what's really interesting is dollies with being a tea room being open nine till five. Do you know, we have completely different customers. We don't hardly share, I'd say we share maybe 20% of our customers. Right, okay. They are totally different clientele. Um, dollies, again, it is a it is a hub. Do you know? We get a lot of the mums from the village, um, a lot of you know, retired people that come and meet most days, but yeah, it's um the tea room, it's um it it's it's totally different.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Oh yeah, I think we wanted to create a community space that you could like you can't book a table there, you just walk in and the space is free and you can sit as long as you want and you sort of sit. And so we have people visiting gravesides, or we have people visiting the chapel, or we have people out for a walk. So we really wanted to create that community hub, and because it's like a counselling centre as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

That's it, you know, it's um you you've got your real locals that come in and they're there for the conversation as well. Yeah, they're not just there for the coffee and cake.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Do you know I think a lot uh going back to that? I think that's a lot of things that external sources to the industry miss. Yeah. The the the human connection that hospitality venues across the board have. It's where and we've talked about it in the show with Sasha, we've talked about it with Caitlin McAllister and numerous other people, Michael numbers of times a person. It's where people have their conversations, it's where they meet friends, it's where they build relationships, it's where they build memories. And out with everything else, you know, the revenue, the rates and all that that we'll we'll touch on. I think the people get lost and what what that matters to communities.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it's it was ultimately the first social network network was going to the pub. You know, when you had when you got a job promotion or you had a baby or you that was you went and celebrated at the pub and you let everyone in the village know by going to the pub. So it was the first form of social network that we had. Yeah. And I think communities have seen the removal of tourist information or public toilets, and all these facilities have gone and they've been replaced and taken up by hospitality venues. Yeah, yeah. So we we don't just serve our customers, we serve people that are walking up the street, need the toilet, need to charge their phone because they're getting a bus or they need to get an Uber.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

And actually, talk about bus, we are on the bus stop for the toilet use. So, do you know people that drive bus they actually can't go in to places that sell alcohol to use the toilet? Really? Yeah, yeah. No, that they're not allowed. So um Dolly's is like marked out on their map. And they come in, and I'm always trying to offer them tea or coffee or whatever they want, but they won't take it because they're thinking about the next the next stop and they're not allowed to go for the next one.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

It's strange how we always end up having conversations about toilets on this show. We had a coup we had a full-on conversation about toilets and glitter balls and stuff like that with the guy, the guys from Berlinke's law were talking about glitter balls and honking a glitter ball on the toilets. I don't know why we're getting the reputation for constantly talking about toilets, but yeah, no, it's important. Um, and probably from you guys' perspective, it probably resonates more where you can be looking at city centre venues, and we it's sometimes hard for people to understand talking about community and the importance of community and and the impact on individuals and people when it's city centre venues. But I'm sure that that's something that is really close to home about how the community interacts with the venues with both of you, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, and I think also you've got to remember these community venues don't do the numbers of a city centre. So a lot of the bigger operators, it's it's it wouldn't be viable for their model to be out there. So a lot of the community venues are operators, and we must be it's sort of imperative that the industry and is given the opportunity for people who want to serve their community the ability to survive. I feel like we've been tightened and not had any breathing space, and it's really, really hard because we don't do those big numbers throughout the city, and it's it really has to be and it's it's a service and a calling, I suppose, more than it is uh just a business.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Um we'll kind of touch on that part about the the impact that that's had. And obviously, you know, you've got things like fat, uh you've got things like the non-domestic rates, which you know, we we're both sat in meetings about and had conversations about where uh I mean we've spoken to Sasha and in recent announcements by by Andy Burnham um on what he proposes to do if if elected um on you know reducing that uh across the industry and obviously removing that kind of rates aspect for cafes, which I'm sure you appreciate and those kind of things and and how much he is an individual really sees hospitality as a as a driving force for the economy. Um but f from the perspective that we've had how impactful is that to you guys and the fact of we've talked about the community and the importance of you guys serving the community, it's not just a profiteering avenue because it is it you provide a solution to the wider industry and the wider uh the wider economy of the community. If and I'm not saying I'm just hypothetically speaking, right? What would the impact be to Rosalind if you guys weren't able to continue? Does that make sense? If if the venues weren't there, yeah, and that things got too tough for whatever reason, what would the what would you see as the impact being to to Rosalind as a community?

SPEAKER_01 10:11

I think it's always about perception and reality, which we've spoken about as well. So I think initially it would be like, wow, this is a great opportunity. Then they'd probably look at the margin and they think, Why are these guys doing this? Um and and I think that's what it is, and I think we're riding out a storm, and people say, How are the how's the things in the industry, Richard Silver? Really, really tough. They'll say, How are you doing? I says, Well, we we we're all we're getting there. I says, but we don't have a landlord picking up the phone and saying our rent's going to be up by 50%. So I think it's just so fragilely balanced, and I think you shouldn't have to be excellent just to survive in an industry, and I think it really is at that point, and not sort of saying that that's what we are, but I'm just saying that you have to really be on everything, and it's it's all encompassing, it's not a 95 job, it's where you live and you breathe. Yeah, and if you're not living and breathing it, you won't survive.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

But if you also, if you take, say, say Dolly's shut tomorrow, yeah, it'll lay empty for 18 months. Do you know when we took it over, um, the contents inside was zero, so it's not like someone was jumping to take it over, it lay empty 18 months. So take that away from the village. You've lost your community hub. You know, I hold the councillor's monthly meeting, um, you know, your your community your community hub in general, like you lose that, but then nobody's coming to take that over, really. Yeah, because so your big chains, we're too far out. Yeah, we're too far out of town. We're a chain's no interest in our area.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

So ultimately the the community suffers, the people in the community suffers, and the the economy or the the area suffers.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

It's the mental health impact because it says social space, loneliness, people coming out. Like we started an initiative this Christmas. Yeah. Where we started the village had 900 houses, they built 700. So a lot of it was the newcomers, outcomers, and there was that whole thing, you know, which if everyone ever lived in a village, they'll understand our town, they'll know what that is. And we we sort of really wanted to break that down. So we started a uh a community called the Roslyn Dads and Lads. Okay. So we now have 50 odd, nearly 60 members of the Roslyn Dads and Lads, and it's basically revolves around golf. Uh so we we met at the pub and walked down to a local brewery. You don't like you don't like golf, do you record any kids? We actually just had an open champions got his portrait up on the wall for 12 months. So we do lots of things within the community to build community, and I think it's important the hospitality positions itself as the centre of the community. And we need as operators, we need to engage with communities and learn what they want and make sure we're doing what they want and not what we just think they want.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

And see, like the the Ros and Dad and Lads thing, people think, and again, oh, they get to go and play golf, but but say, you know, putting 700 more houses in a village, yeah. So, you know, women they go out, they go at their work, they end up best friends with their colleagues. That's the reality. Yeah, yeah. For men, with the way the world's went, some of them are working from home, do you know? Men don't talk about things, they've moved to a village, they don't know anyone. How are they meeting friends? 100%. How are they meeting friends? So if you don't have an initiative like that, who are they talking to? How you know, how are they going? You don't hang around the school gates and say, Will you be my friend? You know, like you used to years ago. It's like that now. Yeah, it kind of is like that now.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

You're coming out to play. Yeah, honestly. Somebody walked behind us in the school on yesterday, and a mum went, Use her like a couple of school girls, take a line all the way down the road.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And that's how it is now. But it's it's it's not for me as a nurse as well. Yeah. The mental health side of that, and for men to be able to have an outlet of just going to the pub or just going to golf and knowing that's coming, that's a huge thing for a community.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

But that's why hospitality, the the positive impacts, I think the metric that isn't on the sort of ministers look at and the government look at, that's an in sort of an intangible benefit of a good hospitality.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

It's something that doesn't need to chew up in a spring or that people don't get. And that we we've talked about this and I've spoken to Sasha about it, and numerous people. The thing that properly frustrates me when it comes to government policy and and everything else is there is it's there is no human level to it. Most of the people that are making those decisions have never run a business, they've never operated a business. They look at it as a number on a spreadsheet, or acting as an advisor from someone who's I no disrespect to unigraduates, but never been in that or worked in the industry, they're coming straight out of a unidegree and a politics degree, straight into a position, and they're saying, Well, that looks great in a spreadsheet. It may do, but the reality makes no sense whatsoever. It's that it's not workable because the hospitality industry, uh as we've talked about before, fits into our spiders into so many other industries, retail, you know, beauty industry, transport, everything else that comes with that. What happens to them? Do you start plugging it's before you know it, you're plugging fingers in a dam and you're not filling anything, you're no solving anything.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

I think hospitality has so many dynamic and one like brilliant operators within Scotland. Um and and sort of getting to meet and learn from some of them there. But we've got to we've always almost become so dynamic that we're now trying to prick fix problems for the government. It's like they need to stop coming to us for more money. So we were talking about, so one of the conversations I had was I think Scotland or England, it's like 79 or 80% of the alcohol sold as an off-sale setting. Right. So if we keep coming after the 20%, us, the on-trade, yeah, then there's not really a huge amount of money to be get there. But if if we sort of let's just say hypothetically, you know, if if Justin, if you come into my bar and you say, Can I have 28 Jaegermeisters? Sorry, I can't say brand. I don't know, you can say anyone. No, no, I don't I don't I'm just using that as an example. I'm not wanting to be a good one. Other other brands are available. I don't want to prescribe to anyone. I'm just using the dogs.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Do you want a 28 shot?

unknown 15:46

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Sorry, apologies. If you had 28 shots, um, I'd say, Justin, why don't we start off with a couple? Let's do a couple, see we get on, and then we'll build there. You go to a supermarket or an off-sale setting and you can buy as many as you want. So imagine we've said, well, actually, we've got 20% back, which is too high, and we've all agreed on that, but for hospitality. But what about if in retail we had another 20% off-sales tax? Let's close the parity between off-sales setting and on-sales and drive people back into safe environments. The the the the original consumption room.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

That's why that's why you have licensed premises in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

And all the staff are trained and it's a safe environment, and we can regulate the safe consumption of alcohol, drive people back into that because going after the 20% isn't going to be as lucrative as going after the 80. So, government, look, like, look drive people back into us. And that social experience that comes with buying a drink and going to the pub and having a bottle of wine, and rather than sitting in the house with your partner, you might have been having a good mood or a bad mood.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

What are you trying to say?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

You can go to the local public.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

I've got a feeling this is going to turn out a Jeremy Kyle show as opposed to enough talking about that, right? You're the first couple team, let's say, that we've had on the show, right? Um, so I'm really interested to understand, and I'm sure a lot of people would resonate with it, that when it's a community venue or any venue that you're operating, or any business that you're operating, with the challenges that have existed, right? Let's be honest, the hospitality industry pretty much since COVID has had one hammer blow after the next, and has not really had a chance to reset, adapt, or anything at all. With the challenges, that that must be hard not to take home without prying too much. I mean that's pressure on uh a family situation, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:34

I think the caveat before we go into that is that Amy has definitely been the best recruitment I've ever done.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Honestly, it's it's it's like Cinderella, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 17:45

He's so romantic, though. Oh no, best recruitment. No, but it's just uh it's it's really hard. I mean, and I think it's funny because we dovetail quite well. There's things that I delve into and focus on and and and take responsibility for, and there's things so anything that you see, there might be the process and the sort of the planning to get to that point, but what makes it beautiful, what what brings it to the public, the customer's sort of eye and and presentable to the brand is it's Amy's touch that does that. And I think that's something I can't do. And I think it's very being very self-aware and knowing what you're good at and knowing what you're not good at, and and we should be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

And I think the other thing that um cracks me up, so like um like I'll wash the dishes, uh I can do the coffee machine, I'll be right out on front. And I think people think that I do more than he does. See if you tell me to pick up the phone and ring about insurance, I'll cry. Do you know? Like we we have our own strengths in in yet, and that's how we work together. But when you're saying it kind of coming into our lives, it it does. Um luckily we do love we do love hospitality, but it is probably our every conversation. Do you know it's it's the kids know about it, do you know it's spoke about over dinner because there are they're our private times, but they're involved in it as well. Hospitality is actually our life. Yeah, no, um, so it it absolutely does come at home. Fortunately, we don't really argue about it. We we actually don't really argue, like we have maybe discussions. Um I'm guessing you win most of them. Well, no, I you know, if Richard's, for instance, Richard will come in the tea room. So if Richard very much does the the hotel and I very much do the tea room. Okay, like I say, Richard sorts out all the background stuff of the tea room because that's not my gig. Um, but yeah, he might come in and say, Do you know what? Actually, I don't think your wrote I should work like that. I think maybe, and I'll I will listen while he's talking. Um and then and then yeah, it it will just it will just be yeah, that's just not that's just not gonna be happening.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

But that's something that comes across very much from both of you every time I've spoken to you, every time I've met you, is you are very much a team. Yeah, and that that comes across there's two things that come across with it seems as if I'm blown sunshine. Um but not only the the teamwork side of things, but something that I'm constantly inspired by you guys with is the positivity that you have. And it's something that I always advocate and always will bend over backwards with, and something I've been criticised for and very vocal about, about there there is no room in the industry for me for arrogance, stereotypes, or this closed-minded approach about that one can he work with that one or that one doesn't he work with that one. It's an industry that we all should be trying to help each other in whatever way we can, and anybody that's closed off to that or thinks they don't need support or help is for me damaging the industry. And the thing that's always been really positive for you guys is every time I meet you, every time I speak to you, no matter what it's about, it's always I always brings a smile on my face. He's I always walk away smiling because these are so positive and so focused and nothing's a problem. No, and that's something that we really, really value and want to thank you for because it it genuinely inspires.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

I think is we enjoy it, we do enjoy it. Yeah, but there is net there is negative. I'm not gonna pretend there's not negatives, but I think we you you can't let that define you. You can't let the negatives define you. And yeah, if you're always if you're always looking at the negatives, how are you how are you growing, how are you moving forward? Um and when you say about you know people, you know, having this opinion, having that opinion, we all have to come as one. We have to come as one. We're stronger in numbers, strength in numbers.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Um and I mean we we spoke about it, and just when you mentioned that, it's when you look at the industry as a whole and the the amount of diverse personalities that are across the industry, it's uh it's a an entertainment industry at the end of the day. Whether you're serving a coffee or whether you're a nightclub like the Ministry of Sound, and you're entertaining people in some way. You're affecting their mood, you're affecting their attitude. And what we've always said is yes, there's challenges across the industry. Yes, some of them are bad. Some of them need to be fixed and they're urgently need to be fixed. But there's always going to be a problem. There's always going to be a hurdle or a challenge to go over in some form. As an industry, if we keep banging on about how bad things are, how challenging things are, you know, the same doom loop that we're seem to be stuck in at points. It's no surprise that we're finding it hard, harder to employ people or harder to find stuff. Not just the challenges with the NI and everything else which are there. But if we as an industry are projecting that it's not a particularly positive place to come in, why would people want to come and work on it? Why would people want to come out and experience that?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

We have to have the silver line in the past.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

I think we have to tweak the narrative a wee bit in a a way, yes, it's vitally important, and we're will do it to our dying day about championing the industry and focusing on what's not right and what needs to be better. But we're also look at things and want to celebrate. We want to do it maybe a bit of tongue-in-cheek and have a laugh, and it's not a bad thing. Smiling and laughing isn't there a thing that should be shied away from.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

I I think like you're saying about the passion that we have for what we do. I mean, we are microscopic in the grand scheme of the hospitality, but it's our whole world. So it matters everything to us. So it's a that that's it. And I think, like you say, making it fun. One of our key drivers with the team, and and we we've we've really our key key KPI is the staff stay around. So we have Stuart who runs a business who's 23 years, he's with us. We have two managers, Aiden and Freya, that are over 10 years. We have a chef that started as a KP, it's a chef that's been with us 13 years, our head chef's been us 23 years. These numbers are do not exist in small hospitality, and but it's because create we focus heavily on culture over everything before our systems, before our processes, before our PL, it's about that culture and in focusing around their core values. But I think giving staff autonomy to make mistakes, and I've learned this from speaking to a lot of the bigger operators who give you advice, and it's it's really been invaluable to me. But the um the sort of don't don't judge every page. Maybe look at the chapters, but don't judge every page. We're humans, we're gonna make mistakes, things aren't going to go to plan every day. Yeah. But I think look back at the chapter, what do we do well? How can we improve? And this is something we can fix. And I think that passion and that energy that you bring is reciprocated from people, and you can even bring it out to people who didn't know they had it, as long as you come with it. And I think having that conversation, having the check-ins and and really being supportive, and that is hospitality as a whole. And I don't, I I the chairman for the Edinburgh Southeast Scottish Licence Trade, I serve hospitality. So I go to every trade, I go to SHG, I go to UKH, I go to all the trade bodies because I believe it's to serve the industry and it's for the good of the interest, we should all be together, we should all be on the same page, and we should all be fighting for the same thing. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

It's it's about as I say, it's our main focus and our kind of mission statement, if you like, is to connect the industry in a better way. That that's all it's about. There's no hidden agenda, there's no stereotype, there's no arrogance, it's just to to move the industry forward in whatever way we possibly can. And it's a lot of people. That's the energy and vibrance that you and your team do better.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah, you do. And I think that's that's a you know, you know, testing the case. I think that's what we align with, isn't it? As well. It's just a yeah, it's that whole yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

See, when we talk about like the fun side of it and try to bring people to hospitality, um so Dolly's has a TikTok page.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Yes. Um I was going to touch base on the social media element on both of you because it's it's very prevalent, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Yeah, and I was laughing, I was in the waiting room through there, and my team put the most silly video on. I'm giggling myself to it, you know, and I'm putting any flow of views, because I I generally do. Um but see um when I last went to employ, people sat in the interview and said, it looks really fun to work here. Watch your TikToks. Wow. And see, just having that, and I'm I'm not just talking one or two of them. Like 80% of the people I had an interview with mentioned our TikTok. Right. And it is, it's it's often you'll say it's the same ones because we're never gonna make people feel uncomfortable. Do you know it's the ones that are comfortable doing it?

SPEAKER_03 25:54

That's my job.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I know, like yeah. Um, but yeah, so you know, making making it fun again, showing people that it is fun, and you you're right, not always focus on the negatives. And and also for me in the tea room, sometimes we can have really quiet times where maybe in the past we had to send people home, but actually uh they rely on their hours. So I'll say, Do you know what? Let's not send people home. Uh, don't employ somebody to do our social media, our team does the social media, let's do some TikToks. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's why there's so many of them.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Still contributing. Touching on the social media element, right? A couple of things on that side of things. Um, obviously, you you were mentioning Stuart, it was obviously his birthday recently. Um animated paper style, he's amazing, he's absolutely phenomenal. But you guys uh have obviously be developed quite a following on social media, both of you, um, for the let's say very different kind of social media approaches for venues. Everything usually, and maybe like us, is a bit kind of corporate and official, whereas you guys just have a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

If we post about, I think in the industry, if you post about good food and good drink, people are like, well, that's a baseline for what you do, it's your job. So I think it's it's we that and we were like, why does it not land and why are we not getting any engagement? When we started, and I think every idea that we've ever had has been bet been made improved by collaboration. So we all we all sit around the table and say, what about this? What if we did this? What if we did that? And some of them have landed really, really well. My favourite, I've got to be honest, was the transfer deadline one.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

And that was good because it included other venues and stuff as well. I can't decide whether they're my Scottish um aunt and deck or whether they're my or whether they're Chuckle brothers.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

I'm saying nothing. But yeah, and but I think it shows, and I think what's again a USP for us as a business because you know it's when people come when they walk in and I've noticed it. You walk through the restaurant and people are like, Hey, how are you doing? They feel like they know you, they know you. I don't recognise a face. You do your bit, and then it's because of social media, and they feel like they know you, and that's an amazing tool because you'll watch the video and you'll go, He's an idiot, I'm not going there. Or you'll go, Oh, actually, I think he cares about what he doesn't put.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

It removes a barrier right away from people feeling awkward and uncomfortable. But again, it's injecting that personality of the venue or the people across, which is hugely big.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

100%. Do you know it's Stuart? And he he he loves people to not recognise them. And anyways, he went out in Edinburgh and he held the door open for some girls, and she went, I know you. He was like, and it was after they did, which was I mean, it was a little bit repulsive to me to watch, um, but it was after they did the Valentine's one. The ghost one. I've seen the Valley. And she was like, she was like, I've seen you doing that, yeah, that um TikTok or whatever it was, whatever it was, you shared it. And now he's like, Yeah, that was me. That was me.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

So yeah, it's talking about the other side of the social media stuff. You guys were nominated last year for a couple of awards at the On-Trade Awards, and you have also been nominated for a couple of awards this year, this year's awards. Yes, very and you've won a few awards last year for I think was it for the social media aspect? Yes, it was, it was, yeah, rightly so. Congratulations. Um, but yeah, touch on the awards, and again, I'm always keen to know people's feedback, good or bad. Yeah. Right. Um our awards are obviously very different.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

They're so different.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

We try to our whole focus is about trying to for me, there's no point in talking to the industry about experience, daring to be different, not going through the same emotions as everybody else, and try and break the mould a wee bit and move things forward without actually doing it. Um so for us, it's important for us for me to put my money where my mouth is, uh, for wanting a better word. Hence the reason why we are so different. Um but I'm keen to see one, what was your impressions of how well what was the awards? Getting the award and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

I think credit to you, because like you said, that's exactly what you've done. You've created something, you know, it's different, it's high energy, it's it's it's lots of fun.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

It's like a night out for people in the trade as well. That's what that's what you've created. Exactly. Exactly, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

And then that's the thing. I think sometimes you know it's it's it's uh you know, as getting your team to come out and celebrate with you. And we had the full the full team there getting us through from the West Coast uh to the East Coast, the West Coast was was was a challenge, but it was important because these awards and this recognition isn't earned by one person, whether how good Stuart is or whoever anyone is, it's a team, yeah, and the team needs to be there for it. And we were so lucky to get that special night and and and to win the social media engagement award, which was But it's not just been realized, you've won a number of awards across a number of the sectors in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Your um your award, Nelly, caused a divorce.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Oh really? Yeah, why is that? Well, we need to elaborate on this.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

No, and and you know, we we really don't argue, and it wasn't it wasn't an argument.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

You put an argument in 2022.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah, it was just very disappointed, which I think's worse than an argument.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

I did decide to go to the ladies as you as they were winning the award. And I was like, and then I didn't just decide together.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

They celebrate with me, and that was that was a little bit more. And then I came down the boy.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

They came into the foyer with their reward as I was doing a shot at the bar. And I kind of looked over and I was like, I promise I was at the toilet. I was just doing this as as as I passed. But yeah, so it wasn't angry, I was just disappointed.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Disappointed, disappointed at the crucial moment, Amy, you were but we're we're obviously we're was it was it Jaymeister the shot? No, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

I won't say the other part, but no, it wasn't it wasn't a Jega Meister.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

But no, it was it was actually fun to see, and this is what really matters to me about our awards and about the aspect we don't decide. It's I constantly get questions about oh, can we do this or what who's the winners or who's the final? I don't know. No, I I genuinely don't know.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

It feels that way as well, which I think is a it's genuine.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

As much as a surprise to me as to who the finalists are when it happens, and the winners, I don't know. I've no control over it whatsoever. It's the the the the venues or the customers that decide who who gets the aspect. And I think that's the way it's got to be because hopefully then it it matters more. Because it's not one person turning around and going, I'll give you that because we've got a good relationship or whatever. It's your customers in the industry that's saying we think that they have been the best in that.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

And it brings the customers on the journey with you. Well, that's exactly right. Yeah, so they celebrate the re award with you because you know they've been part of it. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Yeah, and I think yeah, I think and it's great we did a video to get the votes in, but that's we're so lucky to have such an engaged audience that put us votes in because we're not the biggest fallen, maybe, or but to get people who actually went out their way to go and send the email or send the message, so appreciative of that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

It certainly matters, but uh, I was I was laughing when uh the the two presenters, I think it was uh Amy, I think Lisa was that was presenting social media, and the team descended in the stage, they were like they were like rabbit in the headlights, it was like, where are all these people come with me? It was really funny, but it was brilliant, and it was great to see. I I personally enjoy the TikToks, I think they're phenomenal. I think I enjoy the social media stuff, and it always puts a smile on my face. Like as I said, when you guys, even just speaking to you guys, and something I mean, you said something to me, Amy, and that stuck in my head, and I was a bit taken aback by, and if I'm entirely honest, I actually had a wee bit of a moment after you said it, right? Uh and I wasn't going to bring this up, but I'm going to know anyway. But you come up to me, I I I can't remember if it was before or after a world, and I was usually um either half half sober or kind of sober, um or kind of speaking to people or trying to organise stuff or whatever. But you come over to me and you could have grabbed my arm and you could have put me saying you you said thank you for what you do for the industry. And I was kinda I went to kind of I went through and I was let wow that that really kind of had a moment, I genuinely had a tear but I'm not kidding, I'm not just saying That's because you're passionate about and it's what you do too. Wow, that that matters. Yeah, and it wasn't because an ego or end at all, but the fact that you'd whether people agree that we do or not, but the fact that you'd you would you took the time to give up really meant something to us. I'm welling up now, but I better have another shot.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

But no, that says as much about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

That's that's what matters to us. It's a relentless beast, this industry. And for to have people to be going at the front of the, you know, put shouting aloud about it, looking for the help for it, you know, we need that. Yeah, we do need people like yourself. Showing that the people like ourselves and all the other people, the readers and followers from the the the platform, they're in a tough spot, you know, and it is surviving isn't just okay, profit's not a bad word. We need we need that to reinvest in our teams, reinvest in our venues and give better products to our customers.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

So at the same time celebrating what we have, yeah, yeah, which is an amazing community and an amazing employer. Do you know just just hospitality is amazing, it's just underrated, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 35:25

100%. It's one of the things that I I take a lot of inspiration from when I sit with with you guys, or we sit in some of the meetings and we sit in some of the conversations that take place around the challenges. But the one thing that kind of stands out for me is the vast amount of togetherness that's there. Where people will really stand their ground. Uh yeah, it's been a hard fight, yeah, it's been a challenge for for certain areas that I hopefully it's going to start getting better very, very soon. But I don't think I've ever seen any industry go through the challenges that the industry's went through for the last five, six years and not broken. And and a lot of people are are really core at doing that. And I I know it's not about patting the industry in the back, but and some people may or customers may look at aspects and and think, oh they're busy, so they must be making money. Just because a venue is busy doesn't mean to say they're making money. No. Doesn't even mean to say they're making profit. There's a big, big difference between those two things. And when you're getting into one of the venues that we constantly are off get feedback from people saying, uh But I mean, wonder bar, how can they moan? Because the place is absolutely jumping at the weekends and stuff like that. And then when I had a conversation with Kevin and we we spoke to the team and it was on one of the other podcasts with Sir Tom Hunter and um Lord uh hockey. That was one of my I mean it's it it's mental. I mean it's and if you look at if you go back to if that was a let's say if that was a a landlord, a private landlord with a private tenant and they were increasing somebody's rent by 400%, and they were saying, well, you'll pay it or you get out and I'll get somebody that can. Not only would that landlord be deemed as a rogue landlord and chastised with every community they possibly could, but there'd probably be police involvement about all manner of stuff. So why is it okay just because it's the local authority?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

I I reckon if it was an office block, it would be completely different.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Yeah, I referenced when there were I did an article with the reporter for the Hollywood magazine for the new MSP's coming in, and I actually referenced when there were seen the podcast and seen them talking about it, and you know it's it's it's heartbreaking. And I think you know, the m I think somebody had spoken about the figure he'd invested in the property and whatever that figure is, but ultimately people are going to stop investing and growing and bringing new properties to the customers because they're worried about what the rate bill is going to be. And there's been lots of things about rates, poundage, and all the different things I've spoken about. Well, are we taking national insurance contribution into uh fact that like all the taxes generated from the venue rather than just this hypothetical rent? I mean, why we're working on hypothetical rents when we actually can find the actual rents out isn't just like that. I think we'll charge you that. But yeah, I think if if I could say for anything, and I think the industry or if we could unite behind one thing and say, give us transparency, I'll pay the rates you've given me. Show me how you did the sum. Yeah, show me if and once you show me how to do the sum, that will make an argument for us. But just if everyone just give us your show me the transparency, freedom of information, I want to see how you came to that number. Yeah, and it and as long as it's consistent across every property in every area in different sizing types, across the business.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah, but but the dentist next door went up one percent.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah, well, yeah, our the dentist next door us went up one percent, we went up 37 and 87. It's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

87. Yeah, like a coffee shop, 87%.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

And and and like you said, uh in independent coffee shops, there's not a lot of them. It's a tough business. You know what hospitality in general is tough, we know that from the original, but jolly's it has rooms that support it and subsidize it as well. Very luckily has room. So we're very fortunate. We have five rooms that subsidise the T-Room, but the the Labour percentage of that's just it's a killer. And uh maybe because they're making TikToks all the time. Well, fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

If the VAT came, that would that would help things a lot.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Well, as I was gonna say, fingers crossed the the recent announcement from from Andy Burnham, um and hopefully Andy by this time is elected, and not for any political preference that we have, but simply for somebody that annoys desire to see hospitality as a core area to building the economy. I think the announcements that he's made about uh what he would do in relation to VAT and what he would do in relation to rates for venues can only be a positive thing that has to be celebrated, regardless of the colour of the tie. Yeah, that's of no interest to us, but um hopefully that takes place and that moves on. Um, guys, I could talk teas literally all day.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Um we can talk all day too.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Somebody that can talk me under a table as a pair as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

Exactly. But listen, I want to paracetamol after us. No, I've got a really watery tea, but that's that we'll we'll soldier on. But listen, guys, thank you so so much for joining us. It's been much appreciated and keep up the fantastic work and certainly keep up the social media stuff. We will and best of luck at this year's awards on what we do feel.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

We look forward to it.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Well, that's been another On-Trade Show podcast. Hopefully, you've understood something from the conversation with Richard Namy. Hopefully, it's inspired some aspect of a conversation or a thought process for you, and hopefully, we can move the industry forward together. Till the next one. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

This is the rhythm of the